Kidney Stones – My Story – Plus Remedies and Prevention, Part 3
Implement any tips at your own risk. Please read the disclaimer in the sidebar of this blog. I am not a health professional. In addition, I do not receive remuneration for any of the products or services that I recommend in this post. ___picture (c) Jean Ryder
My clients have VERY good results with Magnesium Citrate 200mg 2-3 times daily and the lemon juice. Decrease dose if loose stools occur. The lemons may provide citric acid and potassium similar to citrate from magnesium. Once my clients start this program they have never, that I know of, formed another stone.
So, I continue drinking:
Tart Lemon Water
Use a gallon bottle (I use a milk container) adding:
1 cup of reconstituted lemon juice
fill to top with water
Shake each time before you pour it into a glass, because the lemon juice settles to the bottom. This is an acidic drink to have on your teeth on a daily basis, so I use a straw or a squeeze bottle.
UPDATE: My dentist advised me that this much lemon juice on a daily basis was hurting my tooth enamel. So, I did a little research and found that I can take potassium citrate instead. I take one 99 mg. potassium citrate tablet each morning with my first dose of magnesium and calcium citrate.
In addition, I take magnesium citrate and I changed my form of calcium to calcium citrate. Right now, daily, I am taking up to 500 mg of magnesium citrate plus 1000 mg of calcium citrate… always with food. UPDATE: I find that I need to vary the magnesium/calcium citrate according to my urinary symptoms. I take as little as 100 mg. and as much as 400 mg. of magnesium citrate (with double the amount of calcium citrate). I keep the potassium constant at 99 mg. I’ve been doing this for a month with excellent results. ALWAYS TAKE THESE MINERALS WITH FOOD. I understand that they may actually contribute to kidney stone formation if taken alone.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. If you decide to start this regimen, start slowly. Start out with a small dose and then increase it every few days. Your body will over-react if you start with a high dose of magnesium. If you take too much, you get diarrhea and that depletes the magnesium from your body, so it is like taking two steps backward. Even when you reach what seems to be the amount you need to take routinely, other factors can occasionally throw your body chemistry off balance. So, don’t hesitate to skip doses if you feel you are getting too much. And, remember to always take with food and be regularly drinking lemon juice water.
I take 100 to 200 mg of magnesium citrate along with 200 to 400 mg of calcium citrate and 99 mg of potassium citrate with breakfast.
Then, about four to six hours later, I take 100 to 200 mg of magnesium citrate along with 200 to 400 mg of calcium citrate with food. Sometimes I skip this second dose.
I don’t take any magnesium after about 1 pm because it interferes with my sleep. It makes me feel as if I’ve had too much caffeine. Additional benefits that I have received from taking magnesium citrate, are that my blood sugar levels are more even, my digestion in general is better, and my chronic constipation is gone.
I found that the citrate forms are hard to find locally. I purchase them at Puritan’s Pride, where I purchase the rest of my vitamins.
I have also read that vitamin b6 is good for kidney stone prevention. So, I’m taking 150 mg of vitamin b6.
From PCC Natural Markets:
Vitamin B6 is usually safe, at intakes up to 200 mg per day in adults. However, neurological side effects can sometimes occur at that level. Levels higher than 200 mg are more likely to cause such problems.
In addition to preventing oxalate kidney stones, magnesium citrate can even reduce the size of existing kidney stones. Reference:Urology Channel I have actually reduced the size of small kidney stones and passed them without pain using these minerals.
Additionally, I found these links to be helpful:
Oxalate Diet at Litholink Check out their whole site. They have an abundance of good kidney stone information and address all forms of stones and treatments.
LowOxalateDiet.pdf from the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center This has some additional foods listed.
Earth Clinic One of my readers suggested this site and it has a lot of useful information by way of forum discussion.
Water: How much should you drink every day? A Mayo Clinic article.
A Kidney Stone entry at Wikipedia
I’ve been taking the magnesium for several months now and it is quite a success for me. The end of the summer and the beginning of fall is when I am at highest risk to develop the worst stones. Since I’ve added this magnesium citrate remedy to my lemon water and oxalate diet, I’ve not had a bad stone. I still form tiny crystals, but I pass them before most people would know they have a stone. I just know the nausea and other symptoms so well, that I can tell I still have a slight malfunction. But, I can live with this! : )
UPDATE: 11/09/2009
I ran across an interesting site that has an abundance of information on the various organs. I have not studied their kidney stone section because I’m doing well now and tired of studying. But, you might want to check it out. They also have forums available. The site is Ask Shelley .
From Ask Shelley:
Signs of Healthy Kidneys
- Strong, solid urine flow/stream rather than a “spray”
- clear yellow urine
- relatively infrequent trips to the bathroom – at least a couple hours or so between visits
- no nocturnal urination unless it’s just once, rarely, and usually after 5am
- steady energy overall, no flank or back pain, no sciatica type pain
Because I form kidney stones chronically, if my urine stream deviates from what she describes here, I know that I am in danger of forming stones. I want my urine stream to flow like water flowing from a hose that is on, but not under pressure. The urine just falls out freely and does not feel unusually warm. When I implemented everything on this page, it took about two weeks for my urine stream to become healthy.
Related Posts:
Kidney Stones – My Story – Plus Remedies and Prevention, Part 2
[...] on 17 Oct 2007 at 5:36 pm2 Kidney Stones – My Story – Plus Remedies and Prevention, Part 3 « MouseNaround [...]
Kidney Stones – My Story – Plus Remedies and Prevention, Part 1 « MouseNaround
October 17, 2007 at 5:38 pm
I added the following link to the article. It has additional foods listed.
LowOxalateDiet.pdf from the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
Ann Addison
December 16, 2007 at 5:18 pm
wow…you’ve gone through a lot. I just had my second kidney stone in 10 years. The pain is really incredible. No one was with me so I drove to the hospital myself while I was sweating profusely and vomitting. That was a really fun ride. CT scan showed a tiny stone 1mm. Calcium oxcylate like yours. So far I have done nothing to help myself. I am not even sure where to start. I am lucky if I drink 1 glass of water a day so maybe I should start there.
Chicki D
April 20, 2008 at 10:47 am
Chicki,
I wish you the best. Most of what I know about kidney stones is in one of these three posts.
Regarding getting to a hospital… I try to stay home and get through it (but, I already know what is going on, and many people may not if they don’t have them often). I find I can be more comfortable at home… EXCEPT, there are times when the pain becomes unbearable and the hospital is your only option.
Of course, you should go to the hospital if you have any doubt about what is happening. But, I highly recommend calling an ambulance. I can’t imagine driving during a severe attack. Plus, with an ambulance you go right in… no waiting for triage.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
April 20, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Hello!! Thank you for your pleasant and informative site. I have lupus, diabetes, arthritis, etc…and now kidney “sand”…with the nausea, flank pain, and lower left quadrant pain, and personality blahs….and irritability. At times I have cultured positive for a rather unusual bacteria for a uti—klebsiella pneumonia. I am presently seeing a local urologist, but feel he is not attuned to me (he is broken english speaking, and his practice is mostly male). It seems to me local urologists are all non english speaking!!! I am going to ask for a referral from my primary care physician, if the treatment due to be done on the 15th of May is not successful.
Thanks again for the information, Huggles, Grandma ELlie in FLorida esp@gbso.net
Grandma Ellie
May 4, 2008 at 3:30 am
Grandma Ellie,
Thank you for your comment. I hope you find caring help for all of your medical problems. I’m glad my personal research has been some help to you.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
May 4, 2008 at 5:22 am
I want to thank you for the information I learned from your site. I have had chronic kidney stones for the last 4 years, it seems like every 6 months I have a stone episode. I have searched and searched on the internet for answers from someone to help prevent the reoccuring stones. There is much information out there, but it all seems to be the same info. I liked your article eventhough, the recomendations were about the same as what I have researched on my own. Your 10 year experience helps me to realize that what research that I have done is going to help me. Thank you for your article and good luck on preventing and searching to help others prevent calcium oxalate kidney stones. Thanks again, Tammie
Tami
May 9, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Thanks for your encouraging comment, Tammie.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
May 9, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Renee, I found this page after googling info on kidney stones for about the 100th time! So glad I did.
Last week I had a nightmare time. 2 largish kidney stones in my right kidney. Had lithotripsy for one of them, as well as a stent put in. Body reacted badly to stent (as well as mentally!), stent removed, body reacted badly to that as well. 2 days later the ground up stones had formed an obstruction in my kidney/bladder and after 8 hours in the emergency room, surgery was done to remove obstruciton. 2 more days spent in the hospital, finally came home this past Saturday. Passed some gravel, minimal pain, hopefuly this is it for stone 1. BUT BUT BUT! I still have stone 2 to contend with and this experience has me desperate to try something to shrink it. You’ve given a lot of great info – thank you!
Eileen
June 17, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Eileen,
What a nightmare! I don’t think I’ve written about the stint I had once. It was a bad experience also, but not as bad as your story. I hope you find some helpful tips here. I still have chronic stones, but it’s been almost 2 years since I’ve had a painful stone. What I pass now is what is commonly called gravel. It’s not painful, but I have to live with constant “restrictions.” I complain about the restrictions, but if I stop and remember a painful stone… that puts everything in perspective.
I don’t think I’ve mentioned in a post that, for myself I can see a definite correlation to my allergies. Too many allergy meds will dry me out from the inside, causing a stone. And, even when limiting my allergy meds, the allergic response of my body causes dehydration. So now, in addition to monitoring my urine output, I also limit my time outdoors when I am having increasing allergy symptoms.
Eileen, I hope your second stone will pass easier than the first. For myself, I would even prefer to pass a painful stone on my own than to undergo the medical procedures with all their side effects. Although, if it is painful as in a 9 or 10 on the pain scale again, my plan is to call an ambulance (so I can skip triage at the hospital) and let them give me morphine as I pass it.
I hope it never gets that bad again!
Renee Ann Addison Culver
June 17, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Renee,
My story started almost 2 years ago while I was pregnant with my daughter. I had all the typical kidney stone symptoms but they couldn’t find it on the ultrasound. They couldn’t do any other test since I was pregnant. I ended with a stent for the rest of the pregnancy. Not fun!
I ended up in the hospital 3 more times in the first year after her birth. Same pain but they couldn’t see anything. They did the dye test with x-ray and multiple ultrasounds but nothing showed up. No answers or help from them at all. Drink water!
Finally I went to another hospital and told them to check me over. They sent me to the kidney specialist and I had to collect a days worth of urine and have a blood test plus an ultrasound and an exam. Nothing. My kidney looks great.
They send me down to urology. She looks at me like I am crazy then looks at my kidney again with ultrasound. SHAZAM! She sees crystals! The first one to see anything! Nothing can be done I just need to drink and exercise. This was in November 2007.
I drink, drink, drink and have had a kidney attack now in January, February, March, May, and now June, 2 days ago. I am TIRED of it. I have not gone to the hospital for any of these times but fight it out at home. The drugs there haven’t worked for me anyway.
Your suggestions give me hope. I am going to start with the magnesium citrate, calcium citrate and potassium citrate and see what happens.
Have you ever done a kidney detox. Someone suggested it to me and I would like to try it out.
I am a christian as well and trust that the Lord has a reason and purpose for all this pain. It certainly has made me more sensitive to others who are suffering and generally made me more dependent on Him. There is nothing else I really can do.
Thank you again for sharing your experience. Debbie
Debra P.
June 19, 2008 at 11:36 am
Debbie,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Your symptoms and lack of help from the medical community sound so much like mine. I feel confident in your case, that the minerals will help. I’m sure I will have to take them the rest of my life. Once you clear out your kidneys by using the minerals and drinking plenty of water, you will re-familiarize yourself with the way urination is supposed to feel. I had truly forgotten what was normal. Then when your kidneys start forming crystals, you will be alerted immediately by the change in urine flow. The urine should feel like it is easily falling out of you, flowing… not dribbling nor spattering. Depending on my symptoms, I adjust the calcium/magnesium doses up and down, but in the same proportions. I don’t change the potassium or B6. I continue to measure my water and drink about a gallon of water per day.
I did try a kidney cleanse. The minerals I list in this post are actually a part of some of the cleanses I’ve seen. And the herbs used in the cleanses are basically diuretic herbs. You should not take diuretics, natural or otherwise, without medical supervision and rarely long-term. But, I do find herbal diuretics helpful to use occasionally. The actual flush did not seem to do any more for me than my minerals plus occasional diuretics. While I prefer natural, I’m not a health fanatic… just a person who wants to live pain-free! So, I prefer the easy herbal diuretics over doing an actual cleanse. I use these natural diuretic tablets that contain Uva Ursi, Buchu, Juniper and Parsley:
Extra Strength Water Pill Tablets
To use these tablets as a cleanse, follow the directions on the bottle, but take only one or two per day for about a week. I just use them now, one or two in a day, for only one or two days, when I am having increasing symptoms. You must increase your water intake. The idea is to run a lot of water through your kidneys. But, take care to not over-do it.
I agree with you… the pain has made me much more sensitive to the pain of others. And, I have never been so focused in prayer than when I was in severe pain.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
June 19, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I thought it worth mentioning… I do have to watch my diet also. If I eat high oxalate foods, I am almost guaranteed a stone. I have to limit oxalate foods in the moderate category. If there is a food I’m not sure about, I wait until my kidneys and urine are clear and symptom free, then I eat that food with no other questionable foods that day. Then I can judge by my symptoms over the next 12 hours and decide how to handle that food in the future.
I know I need to rewrite Parts 2 and 3. I wrote as I learned and went back and edited. Perhaps I will get some extra time in the winter to rewrite them to incorporate the edits in a more organized fashion.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
June 20, 2008 at 6:10 am
Thanks, Renee, for your response and encouragement.
Do you have any thoughts on how these frequent kidney attacks started for you. I know the first time I was dehydrated. I was pregnant, it was July and I had just pushed my son in his stroller 30 min. to the lake, played and back without drinking much. Not so smart. But I certainly have not been hydrated since then. Sometimes I wonder if the stent damaged my ureter and now the crystals that I used to pass have difficulty passing.
Do you ever see a connection between stress or a physical activity that will set one of these attacks off. 6 times I have passed a stone/crystal it was after something like having to pick my daughter out of bed 6x’s in the night. So many questions.
You said in the last 2 years you haven’t had any “bad” attacks. What are your attacks like now?
Sorry for all the questions. It is just on my mind alot right now.
Thanks again for your help. Debbie
Debra P.
June 21, 2008 at 9:44 am
I don’t mind questions at all. It’s hard for me to distinguish when my problems started because I did not get a proper diagnosis until two years ago, although I had several severe attacks before that. My problems were hard to sort out because I had three painful and real problems going on for years in the same general area. One was a back and hip problem causing pain. It was helpful when I found the book Pain Free and was able to control and isolate that pain. The second problem was a variety of female problems. Those were finally eliminated by having one ovary removed and going through early menopause. Once those problems were solved my remaining symptoms were much clearer.
So, I really cannot identify anything that triggered my stone forming problems.
I don’t associate my episodes with stress, mental or physical, except sweating. I really don’t sweat much, but I do have problems if I sweat very much at all. But, that is a dehydration issue.
The episodes I have now are “livable.” I definitely do have a confirmed narrowing of my right ureter at the spot it joins the bladder. So, what I feel now is a little pain in my kidney and a dull pinch where I have the narrowing. This tells me I have a very small stone stuck there. Since my research I’ve been following the diet, drinking a gallon of water per day and taking the minerals, and I have succeeded each time in passing the small stone while it is still small. My pain level rarely gets to 3 sometimes 4. It makes me more nervous than anything… just nervous that it will grow and cause a horrible blockage again. But, having had so much success in the last couple of years, I am gaining my confidence back. If I make it through this September without a bad blockage, I will feel even better about it.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
June 21, 2008 at 10:15 am
I am almost 32 weeks pregnant. A week ago I had incredible back pain all day. Finally that night I made dh take me to the dr. They said it was more than likely a kidney stone and sent me home (by the time I got there I felt better, go figure). I was fine until Sunday night. I went to bed fine but woke up with the worst back pain ever (just my left side). I tried to ride it out but ended up back at the hospital. I didn’t want to play around being that I am pregnant. They did 2 xrays and found a larger stone in my ureter and one in my kidney. Because I’m pregnant they didn’t want to do ‘too much’ and put a stent in until after I have the baby. From the sounds of it I won’t be able to pass the stone on my own, but do you think if I do as you suggested I may still be able to pass it? I admit I don’t drink much water…even being pregnant.
Since I’ve had the stent in I am miserable. I had back pain all week and today is the best I’ve felt. But every time after I use the restroom it burns down there. And its very itchy. I wonder if this is normal? I’m on antibiotics for a UTI…funny thing is, I didn’t feel like I had a UTI until they tested my urine…now it is the worst feeling ever. Just wondered your thoughts on it. Thanks so much.
Jamie
July 25, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Dear Jamie,
Kidney stone pain can cycle between incredible pain to nearly gone in as quickly as 20 minute cycles.
I’ve had a stent and found it very uncomfortable, also. If you pass the stone, I would ask them about removing the stent. They still may not want to in order to be careful with the pregnancy.
The burning is normal and should improve as the Urinary Tract Infection, UTI, heals. I have also been surprised to have a UTI with no symptoms. Your infection was probably peaking just as you got on the medication.
Even if you were not pregnant, the best way to pass a stone (if possible) is on your own. It is better to try to pass it.
Yes, if I were you I would read and re-read this post and post 2 and apply everything you can. You especially need to discuss these things with your doctor first. But, immediately start measuring your water and make sure you drink 3/4 to 1 gallon of water per day. You might not like the remedies, but they are much kinder than the alternative.
You might want to ask them to tell you the size of the stone in your ureter. They should have it written in your records.
I’m happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability. I hope you will pass your stone quickly.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
July 26, 2008 at 8:03 am
I was wondering if taking these remedies are safe during pregnancy and nursing?
I have passed over 100 stones in my life(29yrs). I form them during pregnancy. I start passing them 3 months into pregnancy and up to 6 months after pregnancy.(I have 3 children & this is the same with all pregnacies). I have had three surgeries. This has been very difficult on my body and mind. I have not found anything that is safe for me during these times, which are the only times I have problems, please let me know if your remedies are safe to use in my circumstance. I would start immediately. My lastest surgery was today(they blasted 6 of the stones I had), my baby is 6 months old and nursing.
Alyssa
August 12, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Alyssa,
I recommend for everyone to check with their doctor. I would think they are safe during pregnancy and nursing, but I am not a medical professional and I’ve never been pregnant.
I see in the comments that a lot of women have this problem during pregnancy, but your situation sounds extreme. I have also passed countless stones, but I can’t imagine how awful it must be to suffer with kidney stones during pregnancy.
My heart goes out to you. I advise checking with your doctor.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 12, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Alyssa and all the women who commented about kidney stones during pregnancy,
You all may have just helped me figure out the root of my problem. I have had adenomyosis for as many years as I have had kidney stones… about 10 years. As I understand it, adenomyosis is the same as endometriosis, except it is contained inside of your uterus. The doctors have told me it’s fine to leave my uterus in unless it is causing me pain or other problems. But, now I am wondering if that has caused a hormonal imbalance that mocks pregnancy as it relates to body chemistry. Without a doubt I will talk to my doctor about this and probably go on and have the hysterectomy. What can it hurt? I am early post-menopausal anyway? Hummmmm. Well, I hope this will be the answer that brings my body back into chemical balance without all the dietary restrictions.
I’m sure I won’t have anything to report back to you for about a year. If I have my uterus removed, I will have to live through a summer to verify if it has improved my body chemistry.
Thanks to you all for your comments.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 13, 2008 at 6:29 am
Well, as a nurse, I’m still no expert on kidney stones – only what I’ve learned & observed from my hubby’s situation over the years, and from what doctors told him. What I’ve read seems to indicate that pregnant women are no more likely to develop stones than nonpregnant women…talk to your doctor, though. I wouldn’t have a hysterectomy based on a theory…every surgery carries some risk.
Vicki
August 13, 2008 at 8:03 am
Vicki,
Thanks for your comment. And, to everyone, I don’t have any data on this idea and I know Vicki and trust her when she says that the data indicates that pregnant women are no more likely to develop stones than nonpregnant women.
I have had several comments on my blog from pregnant women, but that is hardly scientific.
I have resisted this surgery all these years because, as Vicki points out, every surgery carries some risk.
My GYN has been ready to remove my uterus for years, but has not insisted that I remove it. I am going to make an appointment to see him soon. I will not press him either way and this time will just do what he says.
Thanks Vicki and everyone!
At least I have some bit of hope to investigate. Chronic kidney stones… well, I’m just tired of them and their restrictions.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 13, 2008 at 8:24 am
And just a question here about your summer stones mention……
how long do you think it takes for a stone to hit you after a hot summer? Like if you make it to the end of September, do you consider yourself safe? T-Giving? What’s your timeline for how long it takes to be safe? I reformed my eating on May 22 and since then have had a ton of water. I was stone free supposedly on an u/s done around 4 July (post op), so if I keep drinking and eating right I should not form new ones. But, how long can my sins of my spring/later winter eating haunt me? Trying to figure out when I am in the clear. And I don’t get mine in the summer (Nov & May) so it may be something altogether different anyway. sigh
Time to refill my water cup!
Fran
August 18, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Hi Fran,
I live in a warm climate (Alabama), so I continually form stones from May through October. I have had them in the winter triggered by a severe allergic attack which is very dehydrating. I have to watch my water intake, minerals and diet year around. Normally, these steps will keep me from forming stones in cool weather. In warm weather, it is just too much for me… a super stone maker with bad allergies. So, in warm weather I have to be more restrictive with my diet and I still continually form very tiny stones. But, with the aid of the magnesium, I am able to flush them out before I have very much pain.
Each person’s body chemistry is different. If you are not a super stone maker, you were verified stone free and have continued the regimen, I would think you are safe now (if you continue the regimen). I have to pay close attention to my urine stream and pangs of pain in my kidneys. If I have problems with either, I become aggressive with the magnesium, water, watermelon, etc.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 18, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I was wondering where you buy your minerals from? I’m having a hard time finding them. And are they expensive?
Thanks.
Alyssa
August 22, 2008 at 9:46 am
Alyssa,
I buy most of my vitamins, minerals and supplements from
http://www.puritan.com/
I’ve used them for years and am very satisfied with them. They are much less expensive than my local health-food store. In the short term, I’d just place an order. But, if at that time you also sign up for their email list, they will send notices of specials. They often have free shipping. The best deal is when they have buy 1 get 3. I do an inventory when I see that special and buy enough to last me six months.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 22, 2008 at 9:52 am
Hi! I’m in the early process of passing another stone
, I started on minerals about a week ago. Should I increase intake of any of them to help this go faster?
Alyssa
September 12, 2008 at 8:16 am
Hi Alyssa,
Sorry to hear about the stone.
I take as much calcium/magnesium as my body can tolerate, keeping the ratio described above. I increase the doses a little every day until I am on the verge of diarrhea. It bares repeating a paragraph from above:
Renee Ann Addison Culver
September 12, 2008 at 8:44 am
I am happy to find your site!
I am 29 and have chronic kidney stone development in my right kidney until 2 years ago. I had a left side attack and required my first lithotripsy, now having the stone problem in both kidneys. Before that I have been in ER multiple times. I have been to specialists and they tell me it is my diet, of course. I drink plenty of water, and stopped eating the top list oxalate food, with limitations on chocolate (I can’t help it!). I finally got to the point where I have had only 1-2 small episodes of stones in about 1.5 yrs. Now I am pregnant. 6 months in, I am having moderate attacks on BOTH sides!!! I passed one (about 3mm), but there are definitely more, as I am feeling them now. I almost went to ER, but managed. I went for an ultrasound yestarday (let’s see if they find anything). I did get a cool freebie pic of my baby! I plan on asking the doctor about potassium citrate, since I have some. Now I am going to ask about magnesium and calcium citrate, as you have mentioned. Potassium and calcium citrate are fda preganacy category C and magnesium citrate is a category B (googled through FDA). So there may be risk for preggo people. I will be trying out the citrate bit when I am pregnant free. Until then, I shall be water-logged and hopefully will not need a stent. They are horrible! One more thing to add. My stone development started before my current job as a teller which I have been with for 7 years. I was a laborer before that…and in shape. I have done a sit down job, little exercise, and did put on 30 pounds over 7 years. I would try exercising after long periods of time, and what do ya know…a stone decides to break free and the agony begins. I believe exercising may play a part in helping stones leave the system before they get too big, along with drinking fluids. Something I plan on trying out again, hopefully. Like you said, I am not a med. prof., but this is based on my own experience and research. I am tired of the stone life, and would love to be free of it. Thank you for listening, and being out there.
Tracy
September 13, 2008 at 11:43 am
Tracy,
Thank you so much for passing along your experience and your findings about the minerals and pregnancy. It will be a help to many women who stop by this site. I hope you will stop by again and report how the minerals effect you after you are able to try them. I’m always curious about other chronic sufferers.
I get really tired of the food restrictions, also.
I wish you the best through your pregnancy and dealing with more stones.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
September 13, 2008 at 11:56 am
Maybe it isn’t pregnancy per se that encourages stones, but hormonal changes? Then that could apply to both pregnant women and perimenopausal women (like me)?
thanks for the info on buying your minerals. I just ordered some and they are having their 3/1 special right now on all of the citrates.
julie
September 16, 2008 at 10:16 am
Julie,
I do wonder about some hormonal link for women. Sorry to exclude you men on this one.
I went through early menopause and am now post-menopausal and on hormones. I started having my kidney stones at the beginning of peri-menopause. It may be a coincidence, but I really wonder about it.
Not sure I’ll ever get to try my “remove my useless uterus” theory. My doctor says it’s clinically justifiable to have it out because of my adenomyosis, but the cause of my current pain are the muscles around my hip. So, I’ll go through months of physical therapy and see what happens. I don’t want to have surgery to remove my uterus just to see if my kidney stones disappear since there is no known connection. But, if my other symptoms warrant it in the future, then I’ll reconsider.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
September 16, 2008 at 10:44 am
Hey~
Thanks so much for all this information. I have most of the same problems. It was good to find this site.
Nan
September 26, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Hey Nan,
Thanks! Sorry to find out that we have this in common. I hope you’re better soon. Hubby says you’re really sweet.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
September 26, 2008 at 6:18 pm
To Renee and All Who Read This Post:
Where to begin? I have been a kidney stone sufferer for almost three years now. I have had countless “episodes” or “attacks” during these years. For the longest time, no one seemed to be able to help me – not the ER at Ball Memorial Hospital in Muncie, a well-rated hospital. Not the nurse practicioner at my family doctor. Mostly I just suffered through the attacks at home. The pain I experienced ranged from light attacks lasting 2 to 3 hours long, to moderate attacks lasting up to 6 to 8 hours long. I was usually able to control the pain and severity to some degree by downing large amounts of fluids when the attack started, putting on my warmest jammies to control the chills and nausea, and (like childbirth) finding a comfortable position and applying pressure to my side. However, one attack was so severe that I was writhing constantly in my bed in excruciating pain for several hours unable to find a comfortable position, half of my body sweating, the other half chilled, with severe nausea, with only the strength to praise the name of the Lord. (My 12 years old son probably thought I was crazy to do that in such incredible pain, but focusing on the great suffering of Christ as well as other servants of my heavenly Father was the only thing that kept me from completely despairing in my pain.) It eventually stopped, and I hoped never to have another experience that approached that magnitude. It was far worse for me than childbirth. I may also have finally resorted to popping a hydrocodone (which I used only as a last resort), prescribed previously by the above mentioned nurse practitioner for the kidney stone attacks, minutes before the terrible attack subsided. I don’t think the hydrocodone even had a chance to take effect before the attack stopped.
The attacks have always been on my left side. I never never never caught a stone, even though I filtered my urine in all but a few attacks. A few times I tried lemon water to cleanse my kidneys. It always seemed to cause the stone to move, bringing on an attack, but I still never passed the stone. I was frustrated and confused because, as a mother of three who homeschools and has a husband who works multiple jobs, I couldn’t afford the constant attacks brought on by the lemon water. But I knew something needed to be done. I asked several people I knew who had previous kidney stone experiences if it was actually possible to have a stone stuck in your ureter, and none of them knew. I just couldn’t fathom how that wouldn’t block kidney function.
Then, a few months ago in September, I had the king of all attacks. It started mild, then increased throughout the day until it exceeded the extreme attack described above. I finally got to the point where I was vomiting, unable to keep any fluids or pain killers (aceteminophen) down. That was extrememly dangerous for me because I was about five months pregnant then. I finally consented to a trip to the emergency room, despite the fact that pregnancy Medicaid in our state doesn’t usually cover kidney stones unless they are putting the fetus in danger. However, I knew that the dehydration from the vomiting might make Medicaid think twice. The ultrasound at the hospital (a hospital closer to home than Ball, and not nearly so well reputed) found a 9mm stone. I finally found a very good urologist, who was very concerned and sympathetic. Since my urologist felt I couldn’t pass the stone on my own, and with concern for the pregnancy, he sent me to a specialist in Indianapolis. I was transferred and had the stone cut out by laser (lithotrypsy). Since my anesthesia was a spinal, leaving me numb from the chest down, I got to watch the procedure on the monitor to my right. (I’m the kind of person who enjoys that kind of stuff, so I thought it was cool!) The specialist tried to yank the stone out by force first, and that stone wouldn’t budge. I have to say that the specialist was extremely adept not only at wielding the laser, but also at picking out the shards of the stone. He made it look easy, and I didn’t pee pieces or sand afterward, so that part of my experience seems better than some who have posted here. He also inserted a stint from my bladder to my kidney to control swelling inside the ureter, which the hospital instructed me I could take out by myself several days after surgery. My only beef with the whole process is that 1)nobody warned me how LONG that darned stint was – I was only expecting the stint to protect the length of ureter where the stone was, and 2)my local urologist was not aware that the hospital in Indy told me I could remove the stint myself. He was prepared to remove it on my follow up visit over a week after I removed it, and he was shocked to learn I had dome it myself following hospital instruction. Oh, and 3)if you’ve never had a stint, the end is flexed and scrapes on it’s way out. Ouch! No one warned me of that, either. And once you start pulling it out yourself, you can’t change your mind and put it back in!
I am very grateful for the care I received. If that stone had stayed where it was much longer, I think my kidney would have been severly damaged. It was already showing signs of backing up and bringing on infection when I was first admitted. I think that was the real source of my worst pain (which was in my mid-back along both sides of my spine, not just in my side, as usual), and possibly the reason my high threshold for nausea gave in to unstoppable vomiting. I am not the kind of person to rush to a doctor, and like to reseach as many treatment options as possible in much less severe circumstances. However, I feel that allopathic medicine does have it’s place – life threatening emergencies. I think that if this had happened to me 100 years ago, my kidney would probably have shut down from the blockage and I would have died. I am extremely grateful to the doctors, nurses, technicians and aides who treated me.
I was able to find out from my urologist that, yes, stones can remain lodged in the ureter, and yes, they do grow there as urine passes and the stone accumulates more minerals. That is most likely what happened to me. How long was the stone there? Who knows. It could have been months – or longer. My stones are also calcium/oxalate. One thing my doctor and I seem to disagree on is the effectiveness of the lemon water to cleanse the kidneys. He says the citric acid shouldn’t have an effect in dissolving the stone. I know that every time I took lemon water, my stone moved. I would drink the juice of 1/2 to 1 whole lemon in a 16 oz. glass of water once daily when I used it. Within 1 to 3 days I usually had stone movement.
My doctor has told me that the results of my 24 hour urine collection show that my urinary calcium levels are extremely high – twice what his office considers a high level. My reading was above 400. However, he says my urinary oxalate levels are extremely low, and that is what is preserving me from more stone formation at this time. My diet is already decent in whole grain, low in protein, low in sodium. I don’t drink soda, but rely mostly on water with some milk. I love cheese. But, I do dehydrate frequently. I can’t even blame that on my children, because it has been a habit of mine for years to get busy and just forget to drink, so increasing my water intake has been a spotty effort for the last several years.
But here’s what gets me. I, too, have noticed a connection between childbearing women and kidney stones. Maybe this is only in part to do with hormones, and partly greater dehydration due to increased water needs during pregnancy, then compounded postpartum for those of us who nurse our babies. And adjusting to the demands of my family with a new helpless human being in the house sure keep me, personally, too busy to adequately monitor my fluid intake, despite my best efforts. Especially for the first six months. Why isn’t the growing field of women’s medicine looking at this more closely? Nurse Vicki, I respectfully disagree that there’s no connection between women and kidney stones. From what I understand (through older women in my family, not a scientific source), kidney stones used to be limited more to men, but now are being experienced more and more frequently by women. The ratio of men and women responding to this blog does seem to be tipped more heavily in the favor of women. I do not claim to be an expert on the subject, it’s just something that disturbs me. I also have found a lack of information on alternative medicine websites.
Before this last attack I learned that lemon, beer, watermelon seeds, and coke syrup are supposed to be helpful in dissolving stones. I have only tried the lemon. I couldn’t try the beer because of pregnancy, nursing, and then the possibility of conception before this pregnancy. I know several fetal alcohol children, I would never wish that on anyone. From what I understand, the most damage is usually done before the mother is even aware she concieved, so I personally won’t risk alcohol consumption as a treatment if it’s possible I may concieve. The seeded watermelons were out of season during the last period of stone activity before this big attack, when I wanted them. And I wasn’t sure where I could get the coke syrup, though a friend of mine says that last she knew, which was about three years ago, it was available in the pharmacy if you ask the pharmacist. She says they keep it behind the pharmacy counter. I haven’t confirmed this, since I wonder if it would even be safe during pregnancy. I’m sure the pharmacist could tell me, but asking just hasn’t been on top of my priority list with so many other things to keep track of each day.
Since I have been researching treatments this week for calcium/oxalate stones I have found the diet info from the traditional medicine community, and very little solid information from the alternative medicine community. There were two interesting articles on Mercola.com, though. They were not specifically about kidney stones themselves, but included side mention about kidney stones. They may have yielded some information that could be helpful to us kidney stone suffers. One on the dangers of sugar (I know, I love sugar, too – I can limit it, but I don’t know yet if I could give it up completely) states that sugar, among many things listed, can 1)upset mineral relationships in your body, interfering with the absorption of calcium and magnesium; 2)increase kidney size and produce pathological changes in the kidney such as formation of kidney stones; 3)increase fluid retention; and 4)adversly affect urinary electrolyte composition. There were research notes documenting the studies all these claims were based on, and you can search for this article on the site if you would like the supporting articles. I’ve already written a long enough post that you’d hate me for trying to list the studies here. Another article on Mercola.com about Paleolithic Diets states that the acid/base balance of the diet, instead of calcium intake or excretion, affects calcium balance in the skeleton. It also says that calciuria (a.k.a. calcium in the urine for those who need plain english) is directly related to net acid excretion. It says meat, fish, cheeses and grains are acidic to the urine, and fruits and vegtables are alkaline (base). In fancy language it says that incidence of kidney stones in the kidneys and urinary tract can be reduced by increased fruit and vegetable consumption. It’s frustrating to me that this seems to directly contradict the information about the foods oxalates are found in, but consider this. Another dietary confession of mine is that I don’t eat enough green vegtables. Not nearly. Fruit I love. Greens I struggle with. And guess what? I just produced a whopper of a stone. Hmmm…
I don’t know. I need to pray and ask the Lord for guidance on where to start. I just know that there’s got to be an underlying cause for my body dumping calcium, and there’s not a lot of information out there to explain it. And I know I won’t have the riddle solved tomorrow. Luckily, my urologist seems flexible enough to work with me whether I choose dietary changes or medication, and to test me periodically to see how my urine composition is being affected by the methods I choose. It seems to me, though, that if this is going to be a long-term lifestyle change, I need to avoid the medication. I think that would be more disasterous in the long run. Nor do I want to just control the stone size for the rest of my life – I want to get rid of the stone production all together!!! I’m confused by the conflicting data, but hopeful that, by trial and error (like the rest of you) I’ll find a way to get my calcium excretion in balance. I really am concerned about osteoporosis, too, now that I know about the high levels of calcium in my urine.
My heart goes out to all of you that suffer from this chronically, too. It just sucks. I pray our voices can be heard by the medical community, and that it starts taking better notice of our suffering – women and men alike. I have heard that kidney stones are worse than childbirth (I can confirm this from experience), and heart attacks. If this is true, dear Lord! And I hope no one writes to confirm that heart attacks are not as bad, because if you’ve experienced both of those, you’ve really suffered far worse than me. For those of you that read this that pray, ask the Lord right now as you read this that my urologist will learn something fabulously helpful to others as he watches me struggle through this, and that he’ll pass that knowledge on to other urologists who will listen, so that more people can be helped out of this chronic condition. He’s a good guy. A little cautious, but truly concerned about his patients and not just his wallet.
Sincerely,
Laura
Laura
November 14, 2008 at 12:32 am
Laura,
I’m sorry to read about your constant struggle with kidney stones. Prevention is the key. The amount of daily water intake, a strict low oxalate diet and supplementing with minerals have helped me to prevent stones and to flush stones out while they are basically sand. I am not a medical professional. I am just sharing what has helped me. As always, I will say check with your doctor, too.
Renee Ann
November 14, 2008 at 6:26 am
Renee,
Yes, thank you. I read all you had posted at the time I wrote, including the responses readers have written on each Part of your story. I would really like to read the Part 1 story of how your stones started, if you every get around to revising your posts. I was disappointed that you’d taken your story off for now. I know that we all share so much in common, but for some of us, such as yourself, there may be special factors that affect the way we have to treat things that are important to note. You said you have narrowing in your urethra (not your ureters, right? – hope I remember correct as I write this!), and that’s going to make a difference for you that changes the way you may approach treatment from the way I might. I’d like to see you whole story to find out if there are any other details I’ve missed.
I’m taking note of which mineral supplements have been helpful for you. And I’m glad that you’ve had the opportunity to try the watermelon seeds, and found them helpful. If I find success eventually in reducing my calcium output, I’ll try and find the time to post here again. I think it’s very important to get to the bottom of the calcium imbalance. It seems to me that tackling the oxalates is only half the problem. High calcium output, however, leaves us ALL at risk of longterm bone density problems. And rather than just ask how to get more calcium in my system, I think I’d much rather understand WHY my body is dumping such massive loads. Treat the cause and not just the symptom. It’s like having a leaky tire and constantly refilling the air, rather than finding out where the tire is leaking from in the first place and sealing it.
Thanks so much for hosting this forum. It has been very helpful to me to read about everyone’s experiences, especially yours. If I don’t succeed in controlling my calcium output, your suggestions will be invaluable. There are so many medical sites on the web that say kidney stones can not be reduced in size. Your experience says otherwise, and fits what I feel was happening , too, when I drank the lemon water regularly. I will be following your Urology Channel link to share with my Urologist, along with my notes about the other things I’ve presented here.
Laura
Laura
November 16, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Laura,
My narrowing is in my right ureter. Once my stones are in my bladder, I have no problem passing them.
I believe the root of the kidney stone problem is chemical… body chemistry. That is why I think that hormones play a role. I am weary of research, but hope that you or whoever might find more information would post it here… information that would lead to stopping the process. If you or anyone is interested, I would look for links to hormones and allergies – both airborne and food (the changes that happen to the body during the allergic reaction. Also, links to environmental illness, especially exposure to chemicals… also known as vasomotor rhinitis (vmr). I have vmr and can attest it effects your whole body… not just your nose.
I do need to finish rewriting the post I took down and to do the same with the other two posts. It is just not my favorite passtime.
Renee Ann
November 16, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Thank you for your informative website. I’m 52 and suffering from my first experience (as far as I know) with two 8mm stones in my left kidney. I’ve been looking back at my diet and activity to see if there are any clues as to the cause. The only thing I can see is dehydration when I’m cycling. I typically ride long distances on the weekends in hot weather. I also take electrolytes as a supplement while cycling. This leads me to my question for you. I use Hammer Nutrition brand “Endurolytes.” Reading the supplement facts, it contains:
Sodium
Chloride
Calcium (as Chelate)
Magnesium (as Chelate)
Potassium (as Chelate)
Vitamin B-6
Manganese (as Chelate)
L-Tyosine
I’m wondering if this supplement is helpful or harmful in the formation of kidney stones. I’m not sure if you’ve done any research on this, but I look forward to your perspective.
Rob
February 10, 2009 at 8:00 pm
I would not use any electrolytes since I chronically form kidney stones. It is my understanding that the sodium can contribute to kidney stone formation. I would just hydrate with plain water. Best wishes to you.
Renee Ann
February 13, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Hi, Renee.
I just had an 8mm stone surgically removed today. Not sure yet if it’s calcium oxalate or not. They’ll analyze for me and let me know what it is. If that’s what it turns out to be, I’ll definitely be trying some of your suggestions.
I was trying a product called “Stone Free” for the last couple of months when I first suspected I had a stone. I searched your blog (using the search box) to see if you have written anything about it, but I didn’t get any results back from the search. I’m wondering if you’ve heard of it, tried it, and if you have any thoughts about whether it works or not.
Anyway, great information. I’ve had several stones over the past 10 years, but this is the first one that required surgery to get it out.
I’ve been blogging about this most recent kidney stone experience. If you are interested at all, you can find those entries here:
http://www.insidemarvin.com/InsideMarvin/?tag=/kidney+stones.
Take care and keep up the good info!
Marvin
February 14, 2009 at 12:49 am
Hi Marvin. Several readers have suggested a variety of products, but I have not researched or tried any of them. My thoughts are I’d rather take either medicine prescribed by my doctor or vitamins and minerals. If neither of those routes had worked and I was still desperate, I’m sure I would try anything. But, if I do everything listed in my posts, I don’t form new stones.
Renee Ann
February 14, 2009 at 6:51 am
Hi Renee Ann…I was wondering if you could help me. I am looking for a low oxalate menu. I have lost 20 lbs. in 8 months, as I’m afraid to eat most of anything. All the info I can find is very confusing, just when I think I’m safe to eat something, I read that I shouldn’t have it. What do you eat for Break. Lunch and Dinner/Snacks. Are you a Vegetarian? I hope you can give me a few ideas..I’m at the end of my rope. Thanks Donna
Donna
August 2, 2009 at 10:19 am
I am not a vegetarian. It would be really hard to be a vegetarian because so many vegetables are high in oxalates. I am allergic to eggs, chicken, tomatoes, garlic and onions (even the dry spices), so my diet is extremely limited and I sympathize with your struggle.
When I first started this low oxalate diet, I printed out all of the oxalate lists and then numbered them according to the confidence and/or helpfulness of each. I went through and highlighted foods that I like that are low in oxalates and that are high. You can think of a low oxalate diet as a point system. I cannot eat foods listed as high. By the way, I can only experiment with medium oxalate foods in the winter. I struggle too much in the summer to experiment.
The key thing I use to monitor my body’s tolerance of the amount of oxalates that I am eating is the condition of my urine output. I have written about the condition of your urine output somewhere in these two posts or in the comments. I don’t worry about getting a stone if my urine output is in consistently good condition.
Meats are low in oxalates, but I cannot have large quantities in one sitting. This is not a problem for me because I don’t crave much meat. I usually don’t eat more than about 3 or 4 ounces of meat in one sitting.
It has always been my habit to eat small amounts of food several times a day. My largest meal is usually breakfast or lunch and I usually eat about 6 times per day. My habits are odd and not necessarily because of the diet.
Here are my habits. I start the day with a smoothie made of a banana, pineapple, apple cider, and kefir (or buttermilk or plain yogurt). If I have leftovers, I often eat them for my 2nd breakfast. Otherwise, I make a baked potato in the microwave and eat it with lots of real butter and some salt (sour cream, white pepper, cheese, etc are optional). My favorite snack/small “meal” is microwave nachos using thin tortilla chips (use a Mexican brand, they are lower in salt) with real cheese… Swiss cheese is my favorite (sour cream, optional). You can also make a cheese enchilada/”burrito” using a soft tortilla wrapped around a stick of cheese. It may not be healthy in other ways, but I don’t waste oxalate points on whole grain bread, crackers, etc. I just stick to white, but I like Pepperidge Farm extra thin sliced bread to help out on calories. I eat a lot of grilled cheese sandwiches, also. Ice cream is a good snack. If I crave chocolate, I eat a mint patty… they have very little chocolate… or chocolate chip ice cream. Fruits and vegetables were the hardest for me to sort through. I love vegetables and can’t eat most of them! Broccoli and brussel sprouts are my favorites… but only if sauteed in peanut oil on the stove-top and salted. I eat corn, too. I also make simple quacamole often… just mash up an avocado and add salt… scoop and eat with Mexican brand tortilla chips. I’m not Mexican, but love Mexican food.
So, I guess cheese, sour cream and dairy are my favorite foods. My allergies limit me more than the low oxalate diet. I can rarely eat processed foods, so I don’t have any tricks there. I may not have been much help, but perhaps it will give you some ideas.
Renee Ann
August 7, 2009 at 11:06 am
By the way… I buy red potatoes by the bag. Red potatoes are slightly less starchy than other potatoes and have a nice sweet taste.
Renee Ann
August 8, 2009 at 7:20 am
Thank you so much Renee Ann in replying with all the information about your diet. After scouring the internet for months, and coming up with so much conflicting data, I just about gave up hope. Your site is the first ever that I’ve found where someone took the time to share their knowledge, and is actually living the day to day problems with kidney stones. There is so much I am learning from your site, things that multiple Doctor’s never bothered to discuss, in their 15 minute appointments. I’ve read and reread your suggestions, and plan to follow many if not all, esp. the vitamin aspect as well as diet. It’s just comforting to know, that someone out there has taken the time to help people like me, who really didn’t have a clue what it meant to deal with this frustrating problem. I can’t thank you enough. Donna
Donna
August 8, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Thank you, Donna.
As you can see, I wrote and rewrote as I went through the big learning curve… resulting in these posts and comments being quite messy. I *know* I should take the time to rewrite these posts, but I stay so busy with life… it is hard to take the time. At least I know that I’m sharing information that has helped me… and if people are willing to dig in, perhaps they will find some help here. I’m glad you have found some helpful information.
Renee Ann
August 8, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Donna,
Sorry about my late reply. I have been out of town due to a family illness. You ask a good question!
I will try to write up an answer tomorrow.
Renee Ann
August 5, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Thank You Renee Ann, I will appreciate any help you can give me.
Donna
August 5, 2009 at 8:52 pm
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August 22, 2009 at 6:16 am
Thank-you for this site!!!
Nancy
October 18, 2009 at 11:13 am