Kidney Stones – My Story – Plus Remedies and Prevention, Part 2
Yesterday, I posted some of my personal history with kidney stones. You can read it here. Severe pain is a good motivator. Suffice it to say, I am very motivated to put a lot of effort into kidney stone prevention. Implement any tips at your own risk. Please read the disclaimer in the sidebar.
MY TIPS, listed generally in the order of importance:
1. Increase fluid intake, primarily water. The goal is an output of two to three quarts per day. To achieve this output, drink at least that much everyday. If you lose hydration through sweating, even a seemingly minimal amount, compensate by drinking even more fluids. I drink one gallon of water per day.
2. My doctor recommended adding
½ cup of reconstituted lemon juice to 2 quarts of water then sweetening with sugar or sugar substitutes.
I find that I need to drink the maximum amount of water or more to flush out the crystals before they form a stone. Be careful, though. If you drink too much water, you will wash too many electrolytes from your body. I don’t like artificial sweeteners and don’t need extra sugar so here is my drink:
Tart Lemon Water
Use a gallon bottle (I use a milk container) adding:
1 cup of reconstituted lemon juice
fill to top with waterShake each time before you pour it into a glass, because the lemon juice settles to the bottom. This is an acidic drink to have on your teeth on a daily basis, so I use a straw or a squeeze bottle.
UPDATE: the lemon juice was too hard on my teeth… please read Part 3.
If I work in the yard, I increase the amount I drink. Mayo Clinic has an excellent article on how much water you should drink LINK. My doctor recommended 96 ounces of fluid, mostly water, per day and I have read recommendations up to 128 ounces. DON’T drink more than this unless your doctor approves it. And, depending on body size and other factors, you may need to stay closer to the 96 ounce recommendation. That is more than enough for most people. In any case, check with your doctor first. If you battle kidney stones, it is important to create a system to measure your daily water intake. I use sports bottles and keep track of how many I drink. I need 1 to 1 1/2 gallons of water per day. Most people don’t need this much. Here is a list of liquid measures for your convenience.
1 Cup = 8 Ounces
1 Pint = 16 Ounces
1 Quart = 32 Ounces
1 Gallon = 128 Ounces
16 Ounces = 1 Pint
32 Ounces = 1 Quart
128 Ounces = 1 Gallon
2 Pints = 1 Quart
4 Quarts = 1 Gallon
1 Gallon = 3.785 Liters
1 Liter = 0.264 Gallon
1 Liter = 1.0567 Quarts
1 Liters = 33.8140226 Ounces
3. I take three cranberry soft-gels per day, spaced throughout the day. I purchase them from Puritan’s Pride.
My doctor didn’t recommend or comment on this. I started taking them before I was diagnosed and since then I have experimented and found that my urine flow is stronger if I take three per day. UPDATE: I quit taking these. They do help urine flow, but are high in oxalates. See Part 3 for a better remedy.
4. Consider dietary restrictions. Calcium oxalate is the most common kind of kidney stone. You will find a good list of oxalate containing foods here along with diet recommendations for other types of stones. My doctor recommended this website to me. I obsess about drinking enough fluid, but I weigh the risks versus rewards when it comes to the oxalate content of foods. Normally, I avoid high oxalate and limit medium oxalate. I hated to see black pepper, cocoa and spinach so high in oxalate. I limit these foods because they are so high. UPDATE: I have learned that white pepper is low oxalate and enjoy using white pepper now. My doctor also recommended limiting salt. I have heard that sea salt is fine, so that is what I use at home. The next dietary consideration seems counter-intuitive. My doctor told me to try to consume at least two servings of dairy products everyday. I believe this is to keep your body from robbing calcium from your bones. It is better for it to come from your bloodstream than your bones.
LEARN TO RECOGNIZE EARLY SYMPTOMS
I usually experience the following symptoms in this general order. I don’t always experience all the symptoms, although some degree of pain will always manifest.
1. thirst; urine flow is weak and may be concentrated with a strong odor; may have frequent urination with low output
2. nausea
3. pain in abdomen; more severe pain in mid to low back, the kidney area
4. heart fluttering caused by electrolytes moving from the blood stream to the stone.
5. diarrhea, sometimes alternating with constipation
6. blood in urine can occur as an early or late symptom
The earlier you discover you have a stone, the better chance you have of passing the stone with less pain. Through experience, I can tell the when I am headed for trouble as soon as my urine stream weakens. I thought for years that I had a weak urine stream just as a part of aging. But, if I drink the proper amount of Tart Lemon Water and take the three cranberry soft-gels per day, my urine stream stays strong unless I’m developing a stone. When I started this regimen, it took about two weeks before I had a strong urine stream.
MY HOME REMEDIES
This is what I do once I have developed a stone. UPDATE: see Part 3.
1. push water
2. with a fork whisk together
2 tablespoons of olive oil plus
2 tablespoons of reconstituted lemon juice
Have a glass of plain water or Tart Lemon Water sitting nearby. Drink the oil mixture in several gulps, holding your breath during each gulp, to prevent aspiration. Try to drink it in three or less gulps, and try not to cough. As nasty as this tastes, it is far worse to have it “go down the wrong pipe.” I know from experience. After you gulp it down, drink a glass of plain water or Tart Lemon Water. Out of desperation I drink this mixture once a day until I pass the stone. If I can catch the stone in the moderate pain stage, this seems to cause me to pass the stone within 24 hours. I have not had noticeable success with this step when I have a stone with severe pain.
3. eat a lot of watermelon
4. use a heating pad on your abdomen to help reduce swelling in the ureters
5. take a very hot, long bath, and continue to sip Tart Lemon Water; point a fan at your face if it is summertime
6. walk or jog if you are able
7. take anti-inflammatory medicine like Ibuprofen to calm swelling in the urinary track
I’m probably forgetting something. If I remember any additional tips, I will come back and add them. I hope this is helpful to someone.
Related Posts:
Kidney Stones – My Story – Plus Remedies and Prevention, Part 3
Thank you for sharing your story .. I enjoyed reading it. I too am a sufferer of kidney stones. I am in the process now of trying to pass one that they saw on a CT scan… the only symptom is blood in the urine. The stone made it down to where it is almost in my bladder.. 0.7 cm or 5 mm. I was told this is very large. I have been drinking a gallon of distilled water a day, and start each morning with 2 ounces of lemon juice whisked together with 2 ounces of olive oil. Folowed immediatly with a glass of distilled water… I do add just a very slight dash of sweetener. Do you know if this tonic is healthy to drink on a daily basis? It seems since I began my skin feels softer. I do not have any pain with this stone .. little cramping a bit, and slight blood in the urine still (according to the doctor, but I dont see it). I will keep you in my thoughts and wish you good health! Kidney stones have plagued my family for years… and unfortunately have passed this to my son also who (at age 19) had his first attack that put him in the hospital for surgery. He has had many attacks since then. He is now 30. Oh well.. we are a strong bunch of folks. Take care. Again, thank you for your story. Cheryl
Cheryl Glowacki
September 2, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Cheryl, thank you for your feedback. I don’t know how often you should take the lemon/olive oil mixture. I searched the web when I first heard about this remedy and did not find an answer. If anyone knows, please leave a comment. I settled on once per day when I have a stone very arbitrarily. I have no medical training, so all of my tips are strictly anecdotal.
Oh well.. we are a strong bunch of folks.
Yes, pain will make you strong! : ) Thanks for sharing.
Ann Addison
September 3, 2007 at 8:54 am
I am not medical personnel, but I have studied nutrition, and this is my take:
As lemon juice and olive oil are natural substances that most people use in cooking on a regular basis, I can’t see that it would be any harm at all to take them daily, especially in these small amounts. (Don’t most people eat salad a few times a week with similar ingredients contained in the dressings?)
I would say that lemon juice and olive oil are probably good for us. The mediterarrean diet that is touted as quite healthy would be high in these two ingredients. that said, the acid in lemon juice can be hard on the tooth enamel, and of course olive oil is a fat so it is high in calories. It is a mono-saturated fat, which though is high in calories is also good for you. But our bodies do need some fat to function. Like anything else, moderation is the key.
julie
September 16, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Hi my name is Jenn and I suffer from alot of kidney stones. Two weeks ago I stared peeing alot of blood so I went to see my doctor. She sent me to the ER to get a CT scan and X-rays. They found 2 stones in the left kidney, two stones in my right kidney and a 7mm stone stuck in my urethra. The ER just sent me home with pain pills. 5 days later..I was’nt doing any better. Im still urinating blood and the stones are still there and stuck, so my doc told me call an set up an immediate appointment with a Urologist. The Urologist will not get me in until July 31st. I dont know if I can go that long! Now here it is 2 weeks after my first appointment and the blood and pain is getting alot worse. Should I follow what my doctor is telling me and just hang on? Im worried that I am trying tp pass another stone that is in my kidney and I dont want to get completely backed-up from the blockage in my Urethra. Can you HELP PLEASE?? I just need some advice.
Jenn
July 13, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Hi Jenn,
I wish I had something additional to tell you to help you. I am not a medical professional. Everything that I have found to help me is written up in these two posts or in the comments. All I can say is read them and I hope that you will find some helpful information. Don’t hesitate to go back to the ER if the pain becomes too great.
Renee Ann
July 13, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Julie, thanks for your take on this; that sounds reasonable to me.
Ann Addison
September 17, 2007 at 6:20 am
[...] can read it here . If you are looking for home remedies for kidney stones, please read my article, Kidney Stones – My Story – Plus Remedies and Prevention, Part 2, before you read this post. This post, Part 3, is a supplement to that article. If you read Part 2 [...]
Kidney Stones – My Story – Plus Remedies and Prevention, Part 3 « MouseNaround
October 17, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Ann, I’ve found that I actually like the taste of the olive oil and lemon juice mixture. I always have good quality olive oil on hand (and we prefer Greek instead of Italian). The fresh squeezed lemon juice tastes best but even the reconstituted is o.k. too. The mixture does leave the throat feeling irritated, and so I pour about a 1/2 cup of something sweet to drink afterwards – maybe a little apple or cranberry juice or soft drink.
julie
November 20, 2007 at 8:20 am
I found your blog and it was very useful for me right now. I ended up yesterday in the ER of a hospital because of kidney stones, I just found out that I have that problem. I’m passing one through my ureter right now, and the other one is still in my kidney. I went through hell yesterday, they even gave me morphine for the pain.
I wanted to ask you, in your experience when is it more painful, when the stone is on it’s way to the bladder or when it is being urinated? I’m really nervous, I’m living by myself in Canada, I’m from Mexico, and I don’t have anyone to help me in case of an emergency. So I’m trying to get the most information I can to know what to expect and how to proceed. I will appreciate it if you could give me some pointers for this phase I’m going through right now. Thank you.
Gerardo
December 3, 2007 at 7:26 am
I am very sorry to hear about your pain. I know the pain and it can be excruciating. The worst part is when it is in the ureter. For me, I sometimes feel a sharp pain when the stone moves into the bladder and then relief comes fast. After it is in the bladder and then being urinated, I have some sensation sometimes, but I would not call it pain.
Do everything you can do right now to get it moving. Re-read parts 2 and 3 of my posts very carefully and do everything you can. The things I list for prevention will also help elimination. The stone can move through the ureter fast or slow and you want to encourage it to move fast. Read the part about magnesium citrate carefully (in part 3)… I would use some now.
If you experience more severe pain, concentrate on relaxing your body. In your head think of your feet and tell them to relax and then your legs, and so forth, moving up your body remembering your jaw and head. Just keep doing this repeatedly when in severe pain. It is difficult, I know. And, I wish you the best.
Ann Addison
December 3, 2007 at 8:31 am
http://www.herbdoc.com has amazing herbs to dissolve kidney stones and prevent their formation. They really work.
Mary Cassidy
January 31, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Mary, I really don’t like his splash page entrance to his website, so I didn’t enter. I don’t want to jump through hoops or be forced to watch shockwave. My pet peeve.
I’ve got good info on dissolving and preventing kidney stones with minerals in Part 3… with no splash page.
Ann Addison
February 1, 2008 at 7:20 am
The Amazing Health Benefits of Drinking Lemon Water
The medicinal value of the lemon is as follows: It is an antiseptic, or is an agent that prevents sepsis [the presence of pathogenic bacteria] or putrefaction [decomposition of tissue]. It is also anti-scorbutic, a term meaning a remedy which will prevent disease and assist in cleansing the system of impurities.”
Due to the digestive qualities of lemon juice, symptoms of indigestion such as heartburn, bloating and belching are relieved. By drinking lemon juice regularly, the bowels are aided in eliminating waste more efficiently thus controlling constipation and diarrhea.
The lemon is a wonderful stimulant to the liver and is a dissolvent of uric acid and other poisons, liquefies the bile, and is very good in cases of malaria. Sufferers of chronic rheumatism and gout will benefit by taking lemon juice, also those who have a tendency to bleed, uterine hemorrhages, etc.; rickets and tuberculosis. In pregnancy, it will help to build bone in the child. We find that the lemon contains certain elements which will go to build up a healthy system and keep that system healthy and well. As a food, we find, owing to its potassium content, it will nourish the brain and nerve cells. Its calcium builds up the bony structure and makes healthy teeth.
Its magnesium, in conjunction with calcium, has an important part to play in the formation of albumen in the blood. The lemon contains potassium 48.3, calcium 29.9, phosphorus 11.1, magnesium 4.4. Lemons are useful in treating asthma, biliousness, colds, coughs, sore throat, diphtheria, la grippe [flu or influenza], heartburn, liver complaint[s], scurvy, fevers and rheumatism.”
Biliousness — 1. A symptom of a disorder of the liver causing constipation, headache, loss of appetite and vomiting of bile. 2. excess of bile; a bilious fever.
Dr. Beddoe explains that Lemon water is used in every person that can tolerate it. That is, if there is no allergy to lemon (a very few have a true allergy to lemon) and no active ulcers, then all adults and most children should use the lemon water. The purpose of the lemon is to:
a.
provide a natural strengthening agent to the liver enzymes when they are too dilute.
b.
The liver can make more enzymes out of fresh lemon juice than any other food element.
c.
The lemon helps fix oxygen and calciums in the liver because it regulates blood carbohydrate levels which affect the blood oxygen levels.”
In the above book, Dr. Beddoe also cites an article by Dr. Michael Lesser on the medical promise of citric acid in “Anabolism, Journal of Preventive Medicine.” He uses this article to validate the value of using fresh lemon juice daily: “It appears that citric acid, the major carrier of biochemicals in the body’s energy system, shows important promise, primarily because of its excellent properties as a chelator. Its ability to form soluble complexes with calcium offers major promise in the successful treatment of pancreatic stones and has also been employed to dissolve kidney stones. Since calcium deposits are of major significance in the much greater problem of hardening of the arteries, citric acid may possibly contribute to a safe and effective reversal of this widespread degenerative disease.”
Even though medical doctors are not currently employing lemon juice in the treatment of the above conditions, this article substantiates the fact that one of the benefits of fresh lemon water is the way the citric acid is able to act upon the body’s systems differently than any other food.
For sore throat, dilute lemon juice with water and gargle frequently. Dilute one-half lemon juice with one-half water. It is even better to use straight lemon juice.
*
A slice of lemon bound over a corn overnight will greatly relieve the pain.
*
A slice of lemon bound over a felon [pus formation on a finger joint] will not fail to bring the pus to the surface where it can be easily removed.
*
To relieve asthma, take a tablespoon of lemon juice one hour before each meal.
*
For liver complaints, the juice of the lemon should be taken in a glass of hot water one hour before breakfast every morning.
*
A teaspoon of lemon juice in half a glass of water relieves heartburn.
*
For rheumatism, one or two ounces of lemon juice diluted in water should be taken three times a day: one hour before meals and at bedtime.
*
In cases of hemorrhage, lemon juice diluted in water and taken as cold as possible will stop it.
*
Scurvy is treated by giving one to two ounces of lemon juice diluted with water every two to four hours.
*
In excessive menstruation the juice of three to four lemons a day will help check it. Best to take the juice of one lemon at a time in a glass of cold water.
Mr. Kloss explains how lemon juice can even help someone with stomach ulcers:
“How can one with an inflamed or ulcerated stomach partake in the juice? Would not a strong acid like that of the lemon act as an irritant? That would depend on how it was taken. If in quantity, yes. But to take it very weak at first [diluted sufficiently in water], it will cease to burn. The sufferer afflicted with ulcerated stomach has to use great perseverance to affect a cure, and it can be cured if care and patience is used. The gastric juice in the stomach is four times as strong as lemon juice.”
In these cases, I recommend one to two tablespoons of Aloe Vera Gel before the lemon water. Taking 500 mg. of Bromelin has also proven to be helpful.
Buying a sweet lemon
Some lemons are more sweet than others. A rule of thumb for selecting a lemon that is both sweet and high in mineral content, is to pick one that has a high specific gravity measurement and is heavy for its size. By comparing equal-sized fruit, the one with the greatest weight will have the most mineral content and sugar. A thick skinned lemon will not be as heavy as a thin skinned lemon and will not have the desired sweetness or mineral content.
The method I use to ensure the purchase of sweet lemons is to look at the stem end of the lemon. There are two ends on the lemon. One end has a point where the blossom started to grow; the other end has a stem or a dimple where the stem used to be located. On the stem end of a highly mineralized, sweet lemon, you will see little lines radiating out of the stem like sunbeams. These little lines can look like a star shaped structure and is called a calyx. The calyx may have three, four, five or more points to the star. The greater the number of points on the calyx, the higher the mineral content of the lemon.
How much lemon to use
If you are in good health and weigh less than 150 pounds, squeeze the juice of one half a lemon (one ounce) into a glass of purified water and drink this mixture twice a day (one whole lemon a day.) If you weigh over 150 pounds, squeeze the juice out of an entire lemon (two ounces) into a glass of purified water and drink this mixture twice a day (two whole lemons a day.) The lemon juice can be diluted more according to taste.
Next to drinking plain purified water, drinking lemon water daily is the most important thing you can do for your health.
hilde
February 10, 2008 at 5:23 am
I appreciate your article. There must be worse pains than this. Perhaps 3rd degree burn therapy, a gunshot in the stomache, maybe a explosive mine that fragments the body.
It hurts. The only thing that helped me was resigning myself to the pain. I knew I couldn’t pee or poop, and there was nothing else to vomit, so, I just hurt, a lot, and eventually, I fell asleep, exhausted.
I went to the emergency room, wothout insurance. What grief. Poked intravenously by a poor trainee in the ambulance, and a couple cat scans and pain meds later. I ask the hospital to forgive the bill, I can’t pay. I can’t see the urologist. (phew).
More water, less high protein sounds good. I am overweight. The pain has stopped, for now. I never saw the stone in the strainer. The morphine helped, put me in a sleep limbo.
I am home now. I also suffer from extrememe depression, this is quite a psychological roller coaster.
I prayed so hard. So very hard.
Amazing that a grain of sand can reduce me to infantilism, but the Lord said that all that was needed was faith the size of a mustard seed. I focused on that, and how proud I am of the troops fighting for our american freedoms, and how they must suffer when they are injured and enroute to medical help. Everyone has a burden, everyone. Thank You.
david land
April 4, 2008 at 4:17 pm
David,
It sounds like you passed it. I’ve only ever caught one stone and it was so tiny! Now that I know which type stone I produce (calcium oxalate) I’ve quit trying to catch them. It is very important to catch one at least one time so you will know which diet to follow. I can eat all the protein I want for my type stone… which is the most common type.
I said a prayer for you and hope you are on the road to recovery in every respect.
Renee
Renee Ann Addison Culver
April 4, 2008 at 4:44 pm
I am so glad I found this page. I was diagnosed with a 5mm kidney stone about 2 weeks ago. Rushed to hospital and then sent home and told to take painkillers.
Well this I did and I can honestly say that painwise I have felt that stone move every cm of its journey.
My question is this……the stone now feels like it is sitting at the bottom of my bladder just waiting to pass. This is becoming so painful in itself. Does this mean that I should be passing the stone very soon or can it sit where it is for quite a while?
The pain intensifies when I pass urine but the stone is not moving.
I think I just need reassurance that this is nearing the end
I can honestly say that water is now my best friend as is your page.
Any helpful tips would be soooo appreciated
Thanks in advance
Miki
Miki
April 4, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Miki,
I don’t know if you read Part 1 of this three part series… my stones are much smaller, but get stuck and cause the same terrible pain because of my narrowed ureter (a small stone still completely blocks my narrowed ureter). So, my experience after the stone enters the bladder may not be typical. My stones get stuck, sometimes for weeks, at the junction where the ureter connects to the bladder. It is a very miserable, painful, and helpless feeling when one gets stuck for an extended period. For me, once they enter the bladder, my pain is over and they pass quickly. So, on one hand, I want to say, it’s almost over if it is in the bladder. But, on the other, since your stone is large, I would keep applying all the tips you see on this page and Part 3, if your stone is the common calcium oxalate stone. Push water, watermelon, take a hot bath (not shower), and take the minerals suggested in Part 3.
I wish you the best. I’m glad this post has been helpful to you.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
April 5, 2008 at 7:36 am
Hiya all, what a valuable forum this is, im in the middle of passing my stone (I think..) and would like to ask the previous two contributers whether or not they manage to pass their stones yet or are they still in trouble? All the best Carol (UK)
Carol (UK)
May 11, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I’m going through the pain of Kidney stones. The hardest thing is the pain and not knowing when it is going to end. The helplessness of it. How many weeks or months am i going to go through this? I found when the pain starts, apply alot of heat to the area, i lay by the gas fire and it relaxes your back for a while. But even that becomes futile. I went to the ER last week, waited 3hours and the doc for me for 2mins just told me to go buy some useless pills for IBs and sent me home (after 3 hours wait!! Viva la NHS!) Been to the docs since, got my xray results, stone stuck in my right pipe. I was fine yest, had bladder pain then all of a sudden today im in agony again.
I have a docs appointment this afternoon. I need to get my life back on track, it’s so frustrating and demoralising.
Pete
July 10, 2008 at 7:15 am
Pete,
I can relate! I have had little real help from the medical community. What has helped me most is what I’ve written in this post and mostly the things in Part 3. And, some info is in the comments of each post.
But you are right, the not knowing how long it will last is rough. I’ve had two small but significant stones this season (kidney stone season is normally when it’s hot outside), but the minerals I discuss in Part 3 seemed to have kept them from growing bigger while they are stuck and perhaps have caused them to shrink. I was able to pass one within about a month and the other in just a week or two. And, neither were large enough to be very painful, thankfully.
Sometimes I experience increased pain just as it squeezes through the ureter into the bladder. Drink a lot of water to help it through. I rarely have pain after it reaches the bladder.
Pay a lot of attention to the details… water, diet and minerals. I hope you are better soon.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
July 10, 2008 at 7:36 am
I have to thank you for all the helpful tips and info regarding stones, I think you are more knowledgeable than most health care providers regarding this matter:)
I’ve been suffering for a month with 2 2mm stones, not knowing preventions, diet, or tips to help ease the pain! Reading your tips and experiences give me some hope of the pain ending soon and preventing them from retuning.
I just wish that I could go on about my normal life (work, kids, outings, husband and social life) but stones definitely hold you back!
Thanks again,
Aimee (Ontario, Canada)
Aimee
July 27, 2008 at 9:53 am
Aimee,
Thank you for your kind comment. I am not a medical professional, but so motivated to learn to avoid pain! I had so much trouble finding good information that I wrote these posts to help others and serve as a reminder to me.
The stones can definitely interrupt life. I hope you are able to pass your stones soon.
Also, I’ve been meaning to mention in a comment… this summer I have been eating watermelon almost everyday from our garden. It really seems to help also. I recently read to grind up watermelon seeds in a blender and then use them to make tea to help with kidney stones. I added some sugar and drank it hot. It does seem to help.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
July 27, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Very cool site!
I’m a 2x sufferer that required treatment, but I suspect have been 4-5 in the last year, as I was improperly treated for 2 uti’s last fall. My story started in a hotel on the road during a TGiving trip where we still had about 6 hrs left to drive. That’s the way these things are — never convenient! We packed up early at 4 am, raising the kids, and as soon as I could stop vomiting we hit the road in an effort to try to get as close to home as possible – husband refused to take me to a local ER in case of admittance – we still did not know what it was at the time, but i was 100% sure that I could be dying. CT back at home confirmed i had a 5mm stone that i eventually passed myself. FF to May this year and another episode of the telltale bladder spasms that something was stuck, like you said, in my ureteral junction – my sticky spot. It wouldn’t come out in like 2 weeks and was measured at 7 mm, so I had a ureteroscopy w/laser and 1 week stent to blow it up. I have pictures from surgery! It was awful and I committed then and there to do anything to avoid recurrance. I didn’t find your site initially, but basically did my own research this summer to come to the same conclusions. I’m calcium oxylate, but am still told to avoid protein by my urologist, just fyi. Amazing the number of healthy foods on the high oxylate list, isn’t it (sweet potatoes, greens, nuts). And of course, chocolate. I’m hoping mine was a lifestyle issue, since I was a big soda fiend and ate alot of wrong foods, even something as kidney stone heinous as chocolate covered nuts!!!! (with a coke chaser!
)
Anyway, my point to your readers, and I do have one, is I want to report that while the water intake seems CRAZY when you first start (personal goal is 132 oz a day because it’s a nice math sum of my 22 oz cups), you do get used to it and actually crave it. And while I thought at first I would be forever homebound or reliant upon depends if I went out bc of frequent urination, I will tell you that your plumbing soon (2 months?) becomes accustomed to that volume of water and you will find that you can go shopping, out to eat, etc., without constantly asking where the restroom is. Sometimes I wonder if I’m drinking enough since I’m not going enough, but the math doesn’t lie and it’s proof that my bladder is just becoming more efficient at processing that volume.
Thanks for your site. I think you’re the closest to a chat room for sufferers which I’ve always thought there should be. Problem is is once you’ve recovered, it’s not really something you want to talk about!!
Fran
August 10, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Fran,
Thank you for your insightful comment. I wrote these posts as I was learning… hence the red line edits.
I seem to be a “super” stone maker. I have found that when it’s hot outside I have to be very strict with my diet. And, I still get them… and often. But, they are tiny and manageable… very little pain. So, I consider my efforts a success. The diet is oppressing, though
The water volume doesn’t bother me because I have always been a big water drinker. Thank your for your encouragement to others in this regard. 
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 10, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Fran (or anyone),
I’m not motivated to research this, but if anyone knows the answer, please post here. You sparked a thought. My doc told me not to worry about protein, and you said your doc told you to avoid. I’m not a big meat-eater, so I probably do this on a small scale just out of preference.
What are the guidelines for the amount of protein? Is meat the primary food to avoid, or do the smaller amounts of protein in cheese and even milk cause problems?
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 11, 2008 at 5:55 am
Dear Renee,
Thank you (and everyone) for all your comments and advice. I have three 5mm stones in my left kidney and two 7mm ones in my right one. I believe one (at least) is on the move as each day the agitation grows. Whilst I haven’t experienced such bad pain as to make me want to yell or leap out of my body I beleieve it is only a matter of time as something is definitely going on down there. My brother in law had kidney stones as well and he advised me to drink a lot of hot water. Has anyone else tried (or heard of) this? I will also try the other remedies suggested here. I have noticed a couple of non-FDA approved remedies such as Uriflow which sound to good to be true. Has anyone had any experience with these?
Thanks again, Renee!
Matthew Hartdegen
August 13, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Hi again,
Actually the x-ray showed that my 5mm stones were really 3mm. The urologist siad that the x-ray was more accurate than the ultrasound. Hopefully that means my 7mm ones are a slightly less frightening 5mm! I’m sure it makes practically no difference whatsoever : )
Matthew
Matthew Hartdegen
August 13, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Matthew,
I have heard of drinking hot water, Uriflow and similar products, but I have never tried any of these. I’m sure you understand the sense of desperation that can accompany kidney stones. I researched and tried anything that made sense to me when I first became aware that my problem was kidney stones. I wrote these posts as I learned. And, I basically quit researching and writing (other than comments) when I felt in control of the kidney stones. So, I found that these remedies worked for me before I learned of things like hot water and Uriflow. They may work; I’ve never tried them. I have recently verified that watermelon is very alkalizing and it really helps to eat watermelon everyday that you have a kidney stone. Also, save the seeds to make watermelon seed tea.
I’m glad your stones are smaller than you were first told. Still, I hope you can shrink them some before you pass them.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 14, 2008 at 6:04 am
Hi there,
I’ve heard the over the market remedies are really just scams – some people swear by them, and I think in those cases they were just fortunate that the stone passed unassisted, like one of mine did. When you see/touch these things, you realize they are the consistency of bricks, and nothing will dissolve them internally that wouldn’t also do a ton of damage to your organs simultaneously. I mean, it’s just not possible. Plus, if anything really did work, you can be sure the insurance companies would have researched and mandated them rather than paying for expensive in-patient procedures.
Renee, here are the recommendations I’ve found for dietary restrictions:
Protein 1200 mg
Vit C < 1000 mg
Sodium < 2300-3000 mg daily + avoid more than 250 mg in any one serving
Why dr’s don’t hand these out after surgery, I don’t know. Maybe it has something to do with repeat business! But I got these thru my research.
Fran
August 18, 2008 at 3:14 pm
OK, so some of my greater than/less than signs must have gotten lost and mistaken for HTML formatting, so let me try again.
Protein, less than, 80 g day
Calcium, greater than or equal to, 1200 mg day
Vit C, less than 1000 mg day
Sodium, less than 2300-3000 mg day and avoiding any one serving of any food that is more than 250 mg
The calcium reflects the thought that a diet higher in calcium will keep your body from leaching calcium from your bones and dumping it into your bloodstream for the kidneys to clean.
The Vit C was based on a few very recent studies I believe about the carbonic value of Vit C (but I may be mixing this up with the tums research – a def no no on a stones diet). ANyway, this was found in a few studies that noticed people who took supps of Vit C had increased stones occurrance than the control group who did not.
The sodium was a real eye opener for me. I always knew we should all avoid a high sodium diet for the retentive issues, hard on kidneys, etc. I didn’t realize it was a contributor to stones until recently so I’ve started watching labels more carefully. This basically eliminates all luncheon meet/deli meat, prepared salads or anything else found in the deli, many salad dressings, of course chips and frozen/prepared meals. It has been a total eyeopener for me.
Of course, since adding the water and opening my eyes to my sodium intake, I’ve lost so much bloat and my rings are spinning on my fingers! It has made a huge difference.
Fran
August 18, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Fran,
Thanks for all the info. Sometimes I forget to mention things here that I actually do… you mentioned salt. I normally eat a low salt diet anyway and I don’t think I’ve mentioned it here before. But, low salt is very important. Like the protein you mentioned, the amount of salt in each meal is important as well as daily intake. I have not experimented with protein. I’ll have to pay attention. My nurse friend, Vicki, has told me I need to watch protein. I resist adding something else to my very long list of food restrictions… but, I’ll start paying more attention to protein.
Stones are formed via dehydration and chemical imbalance and I now do believe they can shrink via reverse chemical process. They are formed much easier than they shrink, but I have found that magnesium is a perfect “unbinder.” That is the main subject of Post 3. I’ve tested it over and over this summer. Since I’m a super stone maker, I still form very small stones. But, each time I know I have one, I pay closer attention to the details and take as much magnesium as I can handle. My stones are small to start with and then through chemical rebalancing, it seems that I keep the clusters from sticking together and forming even larger stones and even slightly shrinking them. At least I suppose that is what happens. The body can do amazing things. If it “decides” to make a kidney stone it will even steal calcium from your hard bones to do so. Anyway, the pain diminishes and I don’t feel them pass. I used to be very aware each time a stone passed. Since using the magnesium, my small stones just disappear. I’m talking very small stones to begin with. I’m sure it would help with larger stones especially if they are still in your kidney… it’s all about hydration and chemical balancing. Still I prefer minerals to pharmacy formulations.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 18, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Hey,
Interesting site. I think I just passed my stone. I have been drinking water and tried to take some magnesium last night. I went to the doctor to rule out a kidney infection and I have no fever. The awful pain has stopped over the last few days but I do find a little blood when I wipe after I go to the bathroom. Not everytime. Is this normal. I am sort of freaking out.
Thanks
carina
August 21, 2008 at 10:56 am
Hi Carina,
I can only tell you my experience. I normally have a small amount of blood with medium or larger stones that may last a few days after passing the stone. I’m so glad to hear you passed your stone.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 21, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Hey Renee,
Just got some tea from the the health food store that I am supposed to take for 3 weeks then one week off to help to shrink stones. This is what’s in them. Just thought I’d pass it on.
1) chicory rt
2) comfrey root
3) organic marshmallow root
4) gravel root
5) fennel seed
6) marjoram leaf
7) hydrangea root
Each came in separate 2oz bags and I mixed them up. I will let you know how I feel. Hoping this helps so I don’t end up paying a trillion dollars on some silly ultrasound
Carina
carina
August 21, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Thanks Carina!
I actually tried a similar mix that my health-food store had premixed as a kidney cleanse tea. It really helps flush the kidneys by increasing urine output. I had not heard that it would shrink stones, but it may. I just tried one sample packet. I probably need to buy some more to have on hand for the next stone. Please let me know how it works out for you and if you are using more remedies at the same time… give us a full report!
Sharing is good.
Renee
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 21, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Hello,
I have just learned that I have a kidney stone a few millimeters in size.
The stone is actually in the bottom part of my kidney, so the doctor recommended against lithroscopy because the smaller pieces would just be lodged there as well. He actually recommended that I stand on my head to get gravity to do the work of getting this stone to begin passing….
This is my first stone and I’m dreading it, and do not know what to expect…
My question is; Is it really possible to dissolve stones?, I’ve seen a lot of different methods tossed around, I’m just wondering which, if any, actually work or am I screwed?
Thanks.
Derek
August 25, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Hi Derek,
Gravity does help and I’ve heard of people jogging to bump a stone down. I don’t understand the standing on the head part, unless he is trying to keep it in the kidney. I’ve often wondered if that might not be good IF you are working very hard to try to shrink it.
I wouldn’t say you can completely dissolve a stone, but I think you can use reverse chemical process to shrink it. The smaller it is the easier it is to pass. I only know about the most common form of stone, calcium oxalate. These stones are made up of minerals and caused in part by mineral imbalance. So, the only thing I can see that makes sense to me is to try to shrink the stone by using the magnesium I talk about in Post 3. Read all the comments of both posts, (2 and 3) I have added additional information in the comments of each.
Other aids, like cleansing tea, etc. are more for the diuretic effect of flushing the kidney. I immediately start doing whatever I can to flush the kidney if I think I have a small stone. So, I usually do both… flushing and magnesium. But, my stones, though numerous, are small.
You will want to do everything in your power to try to shrink the size of the stone before it gets into your ureter. And, I keep trying even then. The minerals have worked for me.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 25, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Hi Renee,
Thanks very much for the reply… I certainly will follow your steps…
Back to the “standing upside down” for a moment…
My doctor basically said that I would not be able to pass it naturally because it was lodged in the bottom of my kidney…below the ureter tube entrance…so essentially it is trapped by gravity….I think he recommended being upside down as the only way to dislodge it!
I dont know if you’ve ever heard of that before, but that seems to be my case…
Derek
Derek
August 25, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Derek,
Oh, I see! That makes sense. I’m sure he had a good view of it.
The usual advise is to try to get them out as quickly as possible because the longer they sit inside of you, the bigger they grow.
I hope it will not be too bad for you.
Renee
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 25, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Hi again,
I have a couple of odd questions.
1: I seem to be suffering from some of the symptoms of kidney stones but I actually don’t think they are ‘moving’ and I certainly haven’t passed them! Is it possible to have the stones just sitting in one’s kidneys and still cause these symptoms (and of course growing) or can they sit there for some time and not be any noticable problem at all?
2: I will be taking a long flight in a month. Can the pressure at high altitudes (even though it is somewhat equalized) cause the stones to become dislodged?
Sincerely,
Matthew
Matthew Hartdegen
August 27, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Hi Matthew,
Remember that I am not a medical professional and will just answer from my personal experience.
1. The stones can sit in your kidney for quite a while… for weeks or months. It is my understanding that the longer they sit there, the larger the grow. When I am drinking adequate water and watching my diet and minerals, I rarely get the strong urine or infections even if there is a stone in my kidney. In my experience, they don’t cause me many problems while they are still in the kidney. I will feel a pang of pain or sometimes some steady pain, but if all is well the pains are low grade and not too much of a nuisance.
There are still two problems, in this situation. A. The stones continue to grow, making them harder to pass. B. You never know when they will decide to enter the ureter and when they do… well, that part is just no fun.
2. I don’t know if the cabin pressure would effect the movement of the stones or not. I believe I have flown with stones several times. I was having very little problem before the flight, but they always become more painful for me during the day of flying. I don’t notice that it happens on the plane so much, but by the time I have a layover, I have been in pain. It may have been the dehydration caused by the flight, I’m not sure.
Now when I fly, kidney stone or not, my first stop after going through security is to buy the largest bottle or two of water I can find.
I don’t think I’m being very helpful here, but I guess I would say, employ everything at your disposal now to try to pass the stones.
If you don’t pass the stones, if it were me, I would make sure I hydrate myself all day, carry mineral capsules and Tylenol to take, watch my diet, etc. I usually travel with one of those heat wraps for your back also. You can place it where you have the pain. And, of course, check with your doctor.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
August 28, 2008 at 6:35 am
Hello fellow kidney stone sufferers out there. I have had a rough month and came across this site by chance and found many other people out there in as much pain as I have been in… oddly comforting to know when no one else around you has similar issues. Anyway, I agree whole-heartedly about the kidney stones growing if you leave them alone without treatment of any kind… I was first told I had a kidney stone in my left kidney about 6 weeks after I had my last baby… I just happened to be having the scan for two pulmonary embolisms I was havign at the time… so the stone wasn’t really top on the docs list. He said to get it checked out when I was feeling better or if it began to bother me. When I recovered from my PE’s, my family was shipped overseas with my USAF husband and I didn’t think about it much still–it was at the bottom of my kidney so it wasn’t bothering me still. Did I forget to mention this was in 2003? Anyway, I had gallbladder stones and my gallbladder taken out and at that time the new doc (who thought he must be the first to make a wonderous discovery) told me… hey you know you have a kidney stone in your left kidney, but if it isn’t bothering you… then these things tend to pass on their own eventually, go into the ER if it is a problem. I have flown from England to US and back about 8 times since then with no problems. This March, I had excruciating pain on my left side that wouldn’t go away. Apparently I had a ruptured ovarian cyst, a UTI, and a wee bit of my up-to-then quiet stone broke off==all within one weekend. So I followed up with my doc who said I would have to get it taken care of finally once and for all… but he would delay our moving back if I decided to get treatment right then. So after 5 years… I decided to do the unthinkable and wait it out some more. Well… high altitudes and heat did a number on me! We just came to the rockies and not only did the stupid thing decide to move… but it apparently now was 9mm and stuck in the opening of the ureter! The urologist could do nothing but give me morphine and as he put it… pop it back into my kidney until he could remove it at a later date… but he put in a stint to relieve the pain in case it decided to clog again. 2 weeks later the kidney stone center can finally make me an appointment… and almost another week they can get the procedure done. They did a lithrotropsy procedure where they put you to sleep and blast the stone with ultrasonic frequency. I was up and about the next day and passed what seemed like a million stones. My only problem is now that I have a HUGE bruise where my kidney is and they have to put me under again to remove the stint–but probably knowing HMO’s not for another week or two when it is good and calcified in there.
What did I learn from this? When a doc tells you to get it taken care of while it is little… do it. Even if it isn’t paining you… do it… and that Oh My God, the little chip of kidney stone that passed, and the stone lodging were worse pain that pulmonary embolisms, having c-sections, gallbladder stones, and just about any other pain I have had to date. Don’t let them fester… they will only get bigger.
Jennifer
September 2, 2008 at 2:41 am
Jennifer said,
Thanks for your story, Jennifer. Prevention is best and worth the effort. I agree => if you get one, work on eliminating it yourself as soon as you know it is there. Check with your doctor, but most will tell you that procedures should be your last resort because they have all kinds of complications.
Jennifer, I’m glad you are on the recovery side of this now.
Renee Ann Addison Culver
September 2, 2008 at 5:51 am
Hello Renee,
I really find you blog very helpful.I am 32yrs old.Last week I had pain in my abdomen and slowly it started radiating to the back.I also had severe belching,so I thought all this pain must be due to indigestion and took couple of GAS-X and TUMS for relief.Belching and pain got better after 6hr.
Next day I took an appointment with the doctor just to get checked.After hearing what I said and urine test(where there was light strain of blood)doctor said that I might have passed a stone.I was in great shock but at the same time I knew I would some day get them (as my father had severe kidney infection and repetitive stone formations in both his kidneys.He suffered for 25 years with kidney stones and underwent so many surgeries.Finally at age 67yrs he ended up in DIALYSIS for 4 moths and passed away on Sepember 5th 2006.)
He always had very high blood pressure too because of his kidney dysfunstion.I had a baby 10 days before my father passed away and I could not go see him(as he was in INDIA).Later after a month of my fathers death I was diagnosed with HYPERTENSION(earlier I always had low or normal pressure).
Well now after suspecting that I might have a stone in the kidney doctor sent me for CT-SCAN and there it is–I have bilateral kidney stones–LEFT Kidney stone 4.3mm and Right Kidney stone 4.2mm .The report says these are the biggest of the ones I have ,it mens I have multiple stones.My major concern is I want to get rid of them naturally.Right now I think the stones are still inside the kidney.How will I know if the stone is moving?WIll the Olive Oil and Lemon Juice remedy work?
Please write back to me.I am afraid that I am going through almost the same things my father has gone through,but I do not want to go through medical procedures.
Thanks
Kiran
Kiran
November 3, 2008 at 11:34 am
Kiran,
I’m so sorry to hear your father’s story. When I am desperate, I use the olive oil and lemon juice remedy. I really cannot tell that it helps, but since it can’t hurt, I do it.
Please read Part 3 plus all of the comments on this page and on Part 3. I find the most important things are amount of water I drink combined with the minerals discussed in Part 3. Also, do not neglect your diet. The stones will grow larger and more numerous if you don’t use a low oxalate diet (if that is the kind of stones you have).
I wish the best for you.
Renee Ann
November 3, 2008 at 11:51 am
Hi Renee,
Thank you very much for your quick response.I do not know what kind of stones I have.Doctor has done 24hr urine test and some blood works .I am waiting for them to call back with results.I have been drinking plenty of filtered water since I came to know that I have stones.I drink water I go to the bathroom.THis has become my routine every 20 minutes.I don’t when those stones are going to pass.
Yesterday whole night I was fine except before sleeping hen I went to urinate I had a little burning sensation.Today also till 11:00pm I was fine and after that for the past 1 hr I kind of feel little burning sensation when I urinate and when I am just sitting and typing this.
1)Does that mean the stone is moving?
2)Also I have been seeing white fibre like particles in my urine….what can that be…is it small particles of stone..?
3)I read somewhere that stone can break down and pass as fibres….Is it true?
Please answer .
THanks,
Kiran
Kiran
November 3, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Hi Kiran,
Calcium oxalate are the most common kind of stone and are the only type I have information on… because that is the type I produce.
The burning is probably a slight infection. Stones often cause urinary tract infections. If you have an infection it will show up in your lab results.
The white fiber like particles are a mystery to me. I see them also, sometimes… when I have stones. But, have only remembered to ask one doctor (my GYN) about them, and he did not know what they were. I have wondered if it is tissue that has been scrapped by the stones. I really have no idea. But, would like to know.
It is hard to tell when a stone is moving. They will start and stop. Pain will come and go. The only advise I have is to do all the remedies you will find in this post, Part 3 and in the comments of both posts. Follow your doctor’s instructions.
I know it is a scary time. I hope they will pass quickly for you.
Renee Ann
November 4, 2008 at 5:47 am